Brought to you by the Depression Is Real Coalition, The Down & Up Show is dedicated to the reality of depression. Each week our hosts will talk with some of the world's top experts on depression, as well as people who have been impacted by this illness. The reality of depression is that it is a debilitating and potentially deadly medical condition that affects more than 15 million Americans every year. The other reality of depression is that there is hope.

Down & Up Show #05: Recovery is Possible

IAN VO DOWN & UP INTRO

The Down & Up Show on DepressionIsReal.org. A talk show dedicated entirely to the subject of depression, and the reality that there is hope for people dealing with this disease. Now, your host, Dr. Ellen Frank.

DR. ELLEN FRANK INTROS SUE BERGESON, DBSA

Welcome to The Down & Up Show on depressionisreal.org our topic for this weeks show is recovery is possible. Depression can be fatal if not treated, so it's important to recognize that help is available & people can & do recover with the right help, people who have depression can live successfully with this serious illness. Today, we'll be talking to sue Bergeson, president of DBSA, DBSA serves over 4 million people living with mood disorders including depression. Sue is here to talk with us today about her personal experience with depression & specifically what she knows about recovery from this serious disease.

DR. ELLEN FRANK / SUE BERGESON

ELLEN FRANK QUESTION:
Sue, I can really say it's wonderful to have you on the show.

SUE BERGESON ANSWER:
Well Ellen thank you so much, it's always a pleasure to talk to you and I'm certainly honored that you would include in this important and interesting series that you're doing.

ELLEN FRANK QUESTION:
Well, wouldn't do it without you. Let's talk about DBSA (ph.), its mission, and your role as president of DBSA.

SUE BERGESON ANSWER:
Well DBSA, the Depression and Bi-Polar Support Alliance, (unint.) to improve the lives of people living with mood disorders. But probably a more interesting way of talking about what we do is we people think of ourselves as offering hope, help and support in a peer-led, recovery oriented way, when people need them, where people need that hope, help and support and how they need to receive that. And what's interesting about DBSA, I'm certainly the president of DBSA, we as an organization led by and run by people living with depression and bi-polar
disorder.

ELLEN FRANK QUESTION:
So, you yourself have had depression, you run all over the country for DBSA. It seems to me like you are constantly on the go, and you have a tremendous amount of responsibility. How
do you manage?

SUE BERGESON ANSWER:
Well I really take my wellness discipline as something extremely important to me and that means that everyday I'm using recovery and wellness tools. And the recovery tool might be using my mood tracking, to ask myself questions specifically about how am I doing on a scale of one to ten. Then I can watch to see if my mood is getting worse or getting better and I can use that as an early warning signal.

I also use wellness tools like I'll go to bed at the same time every night and as much as I can, I'll get up at the same time very morning. Because sleep is so important in this illness, getting too much or too little really spins you out of control. So that's an example of a tool and a wellness strategy and I also go and see my talk therapist every week, that's important for me because sometimes I'm not sure what's my illness and what's me. Is it my brain lying to me here, or is this kind of real? And that's the work I do in therapy. I also, always make and keep my doctor appointments, and I work with my doctor to find a medication hat becomes kind of the basis for me.

Because I can't cope without a medication, it becomes kind of a platform I can stand that gives me a leg up to my recovery. And I also take peer support really seriously because these are illnesses of isolation and I need toÉ to talk to and be with other people who live with this illness and learn from the as well because nobody knows it like we know it.

ELLEN FRANK QUESTION:
So when you say medication, you're referring to anti-depressant medication, right?

SUE BERGESON ANSWER:
You know I am, uh huh.

ELLEN FRANK QUESTION:
Okay. You also mentioned recovery. Help us define recovery.

SUE BERGESON ANSWER:
Well it's a tough thing to define but I have three answers to that question. The easiest one is we talk about recovery as being a full life in the community where my illness does not get in the way of achieving my hopes and dreams. The second definition, a little more complicated, was put together a coalition of leaders in mental health all across the country by the Center for Mental Health Services. And that said there maybe 10 things involved in moving towards recovery. Self-direction, that means I'm in charge, in partnership with doctor.

Individual lives and person-centered, that means that my recovery journey is not the same as anyone else's. Empowerment, that means that I'm empowered to make decisions. Holistic, I'm looking at my mind, spirit, body, I'm looking at my community. Non-linear, that means I don't go from A to B to C, I might go from A to D to J back to C, it doesn't go in a simple progression. Strength-based, that means that it builds on what I uniquely am. Peer support, as I've already mentioned. Respect, that means that we respect each other and honor that the Lived experience is important.

Responsibility, I take responsibility for my wellness and work on my behalf and hope, which is always important. So the third definition I've given you two, and the third definition is the one that I love from Larry Frecks (ph.) and he's one of my most favorite people in the world. And he says, imagine having two doors in front of you, one door says symptom reduction and the other door says a full life in the community. Which door do you want enter? Well we want full life in the community and that's what recovery is.

ELLEN FRANK QUESTION:
Any final thoughts for our audience?

SUE BERGESON ANSWER:
Well I guess I would always say, don't despair, don't give upÉ I've been there too, I've been there, constantly struggling with this and millions of people that DBSA talks to every year, have been there. We learn from each other whatÉ what we can do to move our lives forward. So don't despair and don't give up, but take control, take action.

SUE BERGESON ANSWER:
Well it's my honor really, it truly is. And we of course are so thankful for all that you do Ellen as a researcher and an innovative person who really has dedicated your whole life to us, So thank you for that.

ELLEN FRANK QUESTION:
Sue, you are such a fabulous role model for people with depression. No, you are! And, I appreciate so much your taking the time to talk with us today.

ELLEN FRANK THANKS SUE BERGESON / INTRODUCES TERRIE WILLIAMS, PR AGENT & MENTAL HEALTH ADVOCATE

It's always inspiring to hear from people who are successfully living with depression and helping others. Thank you Sue.

It's important to realize that mental health can affect anyone, your friends, your family, even your favorite celebrity. Speaking with us about the toll depression can take on people more associated with masking their feelings than addressing them is celebrity public relations agent and mental health advocate Terrie Williams.

Terrie is an inspirational author and entrepreneur. In 1987 she left the field of social work and without any background in public relations started her own PR agency. She managed to land a huge first client, Eddie Murphy, and went on to represent other A-list celebrities like Janet Jackson, Anita Baker, Stephen King and Boys to Men.

But despite achieving such success, she quietly suffered from depression. Terrie's now outspoken about living with her depression and has written a number of inspirational books, including "It Just Looks Like I'm Not Hurting", "Depression, Hope and Healing in Black American Life" and "Stay Strong: Simple Lessons for Teens".

She's also the president and co-founder of the Stay Strong Foundation, a nationally acclaimed, non-profit organization that supports, educates and inspires youth. Terrie, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today.

ELLEN FRANK / TERRIE WILLIAMS INTERVIEW

TERRIE WILLIAMS ANSWER:
I am very, very happy to be with you.

ELLEN FRANK QUESTION:
You know, your work is very impressive, both what you've accomplished as a PR agent in a demanding city like New York and what you've done in terms of helping people live with their depression. I think there are many people out there who, like you, appear to be thriving off success but are actually going home to find they're really hurting.

ELLEN FRANK QUESTION:
How could you have had depression and at the same time been so successful and energetic in your career?

TERRIE WILLIAMS ANSWER:
Well, you know, I thinkÑI think, Ellen that my depression has really served to make me all of who I am. My business partner once said something that your strength is your weakness and your weakness is your strength.

I think that my ability to be really good at what I do in terms of understanding a client who perhaps doesn't wanna get into a car because it's the wrong color, it makes me better able to understand my client, it makes me better underÑmakes me be better able to understand the various news journalists with whom I have to deal, it makes me a more compassionate person because although I may not know specifically what your story is, I know that you have one and thatÑthatÑthat your early childhood experiences, good and bad, have shaped you to be what and who you are.

TERRIE WILLIAMS TTERRIE WILLIAMS ANSWER:
And so, what I know is it has made me a better person.

ELLEN FRANK QUESTION:
What were some of your symptoms of depression and how did you come to realize and accept that you had depression?

TERRIE WILLIAMS ANSWER:
Well, first of all, one of the things that was kind of interesting is that I'm a clinical social worker by training and so I am supposed to know what all the symptoms are. But I found myself experiencing so many of them and never really knew what hit me. For me, every morning I would wake up with a really crippling anxiety.

Just knots in my stomach made me feel very, very nauseous. I would cry. I would lie there in a fetal position, put my head underneath the covers not wanting to get up, feeling like I couldn't get up. Didn't want to answer the phone so that I would let it ring for several times and then later IÑwhen I had enough energy to pull myself out of the bed, I would do that and then respond to those messages, and maybe sometimes go back to bed if I could, if there waÑif there wasn't something that was really pressing.

And eating excessively and sleeping excessively and being very, very irritable and snapping at people. That's how it manifested itself inÑyou know, in my life. And what was so amazing to even me is that sometimes IÑwhen I would awaken and I would be crying and there was something that I had to do (a client meeting or I had a speaking engagement or I had a business meeting), I would be stunned that I would show up at said appointment.

And it was just remarkable to me that there I was two, three hours ago on the floor in tears and then all of a sudden I walk out with that mask on and all is Òfine with the worldÓ. And it would justÑit would stun me. It's that I couldn't believe God always gave me the grace to not fall apart in public.

But in the midst of it, I would be saying to myself, ÒIs this what a nervous breakdown feels like? Why can't I stop cryingÓ? But I somehow was able to pull myself together to go and do whatever it was.

ELLEN FRANK:
How did you come to understand that you needed to seek help?

TERRIE WILLIAMS:
Well, after many, many weeks, I just thought something was really wrong with the fact that I woke up with this anxiety like this. I was like, okay, I mean, I know that I've dealt with depression before in my life but I never felt sick like this every morning.

And I justÉsomething said to me that I don't have to feel like that everyday and that there was something wrong and I needed to go see a therapist again. But for a period of time I was just caught up in the feelings and not seeing clearly. But that's what it was, that I just realized that thisÑI feel awful and I don't think that I have to feel like this all the time.

And so, you know, through thisÑthrough a good network of friends who saw me and were concerned about me, I went to see a therapist and IÉ When I got to her, I just likeÑfelt like I just laid myself down at her feet. And when she said to me that I wasÑyou know, that you're clinically depressed, I felt such an overwhelming sense of relief because there was a diagnosis.

ELLEN FRANK:
It is remarkable what giving those symptoms a name can do, even before you've started any treatment at all.

TERRIE WILLIAMS:
Yes. It's like, oh, okay, this has a name. Oh, I'm familiar with this but I just didn't know that was me. And soÑand I've had many people tell me that they felt thisÑjust a sense of relief in knowing that there wasÑthere'sÑthere's power in naming it. Okay, this is something that I can deal with.

It's treatable. You know, for me, it was finding the right medication, a combination of that and then talk therapy and then working with a therapist and trying to work on my eating habits and better understanding what were those thingsÉ You know, we call them triggers.

What are those things that are apt to make me feel depressed again, being more aware of those things.

ELLEN FRANK:
I was justÑI was just thinking. As someone who's overcome so many personal and professional barriers, what one piece of advice would you offer to listeners who find themselves where you once were, literally curled on the floor with depression but ashamed to admit it?

TERRIE WILLIAMS:
One of theÉwell, one is to try really hard to lisÑto take enough quiet time to really listen to yourself and to know that you're not alone. Even though at that precise moment you feel like it's the end of the world and that you will never be okay, I'm here to tell you that you are not standing on that ledge by yourself and all will be well.

But at thatÑthere's that moment where you really feel like, "This is it". You know? "Can't do this anymore." But what I know is that weÑalmost everything that we encounter in life we always get through it. I remember Eddie Murphy said that to me, you know, years ago.

That if you think about every single crisis that you have ever experienced, you always got through it some kind of way. But there is hope and there is help. And if you dare to step outside your comfort zone a bit and show a kink in the armor, you know, you would be so surprised at how many people have similar stories.

What I know is that everybody is dealing with this stuff on some level, and you may notÑmay not experience it the way that I did but what I know is that when we don't deal with our childhood wounds and scars, as many of us don't do, and if you don't deal with the everyday slights that occur in our lives that we're moving too quickly to even notice, then your pain is going to come out some kind of way.

It has to come out. You know, it sits inside us and festers like a sore, but it definitely has to come out. And it willÑit will come out in eating, you know, eating disorders, eating, self-medicating through drugs, food, alcohol, sex, violence, promiscuity, you know, just waking up in the bed with somebody different everyday.

It's because you are in pain and you haven't addressed it. So it's gotta come out.

DR. ELLEN FRANK OUTRO (Music up half way through)

For the Depression is Real Coalition, I'm Ellen Frank. Join us next week for another episode of the Down & Up Show on depressionisreal.org. [music]

IAN VO CLOSE

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